Emotion Focussed Therapy Workshops

Welcome Guest (Register -  Login)  Display List of Forum Members Memberlist Search The Forum Search forum topics Search psychologists Search psychologists Help Help
 Navigation



 Latest Forum Posts

We have 2936 registered users.
The newest registered user is potentialspace.

Our users have posted a total of 2941 articles within 878 topics in 15 forums.
Last post by DavidvdW

General Chat
 Psychotherapy.co.za - Discussion GroupsGeneral Chat
Subject Topic: Delusion of ’compossibility’? Post ReplyPost New Topic
 Delusion of ’compossibility’?
<< Prev Topic | Next Topic >>
Invisible
Posted: 2010 June 26 at 2:14am | IP Logged Quote Invisible
Avatar
Senior Member
Senior Member


Group: Senior Member
Joined: 2008 January 05
Posts: 90

 

The thought first occurred to me many years ago, forming itself into the belief that a psychologist could most likely only find the deepest intimacy, the truest fulfillment, the profoundest satisfaction on all levels by being involved in a relationship with another psychologist. Adding the random, as I do, I have held the same belief of philosophers.

And now, here I, a layperson, stands across from a psychologist (NOT my own) who beautifully narrates and expresses his love for me - a man of such brilliance claims to be experiencing a love he never believed possible, never believed existed. Since 'labelled' a therapist his three previous relationships have been with other therapists. Our relationship in 'worldly time' is new born. Recently coming out of a 12 year relationship I am, more so I believe than he is, afraid of what I too experience as an extraordinarily deep connection between two human beings that both believed the greatest freedom of self could but be experienced alone; without being in a relationship

My wondering...okay, rather desperate need for, hoped for, words of others experience/s of something similar. The doubts involved. The sense of honour of being loved by 'such' a person. The, at times, difficulty of trusting in words such as 'you humble me', 'you give more of a safe space to be my 'I' than anyone ever has'…and the most difficult one to believe/accept  - 'when at a loss/in doubt of how to proceed I wonder what you would do/how you would handle this'.

Stopping here in the fear that I may nauseate myself with that which is an unfamiliar gushing of sentimentality (I must admit to the recent developement of an 'identity crisis' of sort)!

An after thought...

Perhaps something that I should add - my imagination does not give to the notion of 'perching psychologists on a pedestal'...or of them 'wearing crowns that hypnotize the layperson into states of adoration, of believing that psychologists have enchanting wisdom of being human'...

Any similar experiences?...

 
View Invisible's Profile Search for other posts by Invisible Back to Top
 
Epona
Posted: 2010 June 28 at 11:23am | IP Logged Quote Epona
Avatar
Regular Member
Regular Member


Group: Regular Member
Joined: 2010 April 19
Posts: 36
Hi Michelle
Just a few thoughts and although my outlook may not sit well with you... I am more than happy for you to question it.
I notice that you entitle your post delusion of 'compossibility' with the emphasis on compossibility.
I don't know... the philosophy of compossibility is one of those philosophies that may have been very important and valid in its age, perhaps as a stepping stone to further development...but for me, it's just one of those that irk me a bit. It suggests a certain compartmentalism, possible elitism and a kind of finite outlook on the infinite. What about the infinite worlds that exist within us? the infinite possibilitities? the unexplored and unknown? It seems to suggest we are just particles with a closed and complete set of characteristics and as such should be grouped or ordered.
Maybe, it appears so at a certain "point in time" but it does not seem to take into account the movement of time, inwhich not only do we sometimes find through experiences, different "worlds" existing within us, but even different planets.
There seems to be a war within you in this post, trying to balance the imbalance, which perhaps, only has life in the "belief" and not in "reality".
I wonder sometimes if experiences come to us in order to challenge our beliefs...does this belief serve me?
Leading to an identity crisis of sorts...on the one side is your belief, in effect whispering "I dont belong" or "You dont belong in my world" and on the other are your words..."extraordinarily deep connection between two human beings"
This crisis of sorts is giving rise to the insecurity, can I trust this?, are these words really for me?, am I an alien in a foreign land here? etc
This is just my interpretation of your post or maybe even a "lost in interpretation" ...but also, I wonder...isn't it possible to see that what someone does for a living is just part of the persona, be it poet, philosopher, therapist, singer, accountant...a socially acceptable and helpful way of relating to the outside world in the "role" one is fulfilling, even a sort of protection.
I just think its more a case of compatability than compossibilty.
I hear you say "a man of such brilliance claims to be experiencing a love he never believed possible" but what about YOUR brilliance, I don't hear you mentioning it...
Take care

__________________
I have woven a parachute out of everything broken.~"William Stafford"
 
View Epona's Profile Search for other posts by Epona Back to Top
 
Invisible
Posted: 2010 July 01 at 8:46pm | IP Logged Quote Invisible
Avatar
Senior Member
Senior Member


Group: Senior Member
Joined: 2008 January 05
Posts: 90

Hi Epona,

I have, in the meantime, sent you a private message.

Much love

Michelle

 
View Invisible's Profile Search for other posts by Invisible Back to Top
 
Invisible
Posted: 2010 July 14 at 10:54am | IP Logged Quote Invisible
Avatar
Senior Member
Senior Member


Group: Senior Member
Joined: 2008 January 05
Posts: 90

Hi Lisa,

Thank you sincerely for both your messages - thank you for your kindness. The first one I will reply to when I again manage to put sentences together! Please do know how much your second message means to me - there was no ‘need’ or ‘obligation’ for you to send that one.

What does “sit well with me” are people like yourself that speak their thoughts - a sharing of the audible articulation of our individual experiences of life that may, or even so may not, resonate with the other . This sharing being that which makes up part of the beauty of the breathing ‘vocation‘ of sincere, ’outer’, human connection (so too does there exist ‘internal’ sharing between our very own thoughts - thoughts of reason versus ‘thoughts’ of emotions).

There is a ‘dance’ between the sharing of thoughts between individuals. This dance, the rhythmic movement of ideas swayed passionately by unique experience, is of a beauty too often denied awareness. Thoughts are the expression of ‘motion’ in being-in-this-world; of ‘gesturing’ experience; the sound of courage to think and to speak…to brave the instances of ‘tripping over the other’ and of the ’stumbling over self’. ce that has given to ‘steps’ towards our thoughts; our thoughts, the ‘movement’ of the growing of understanding - the understanding of self and other. The music accompanying the dance of sharing thoughts

My choice of words entitling my post…definitions used loosely. The inverted commas that contain the word compossibility are not simply used for emphasis as such - not emphasis on the philosophical concept thereof ; rather the signalling of unusual usage. That is, I am aware that compossibility is a philosophical concept from Leibniz but chose to remove it from its usual context, warping it even further I guess. My simple (silly) meaning thereof - the (rare!) possibility of/in coexistence with something/one else (of someone such as myself and someone like him).

I do agree with you that we often need to pause and consider the question “does, and if so, how does this belief/behaviour serve me - what function does it serve“. I do not though believe that “experiences come to us” as such. For my own sake I am going to ‘deny’ the complexity of all that goes with my ‘view’ of this and rather cling onto the simplistic, stripped one. It is within experience/circumstances that we can (and should for a certain conscious growing of self) pause and stand still to ’feel’ the swirl of the outer world that affected and effected our internal world and set into motion belief/s manifesting into the behaviour thereof. Experiences/circumstances do challenge us, our beliefs, behaviour, relations with others etc. Again stripping complexity, I would rather choose to describe, to split the meaning of the words ’experience and circumstance’; to not use them synonymously. To me the connotations of these two words are dissimilar - this though is not to say that they are (more often than not) connected to one another. Circumstances can be described, or as I understand them to be, as what we find ourselves in without, necessarily, having created/influenced them; the existence of certain circumstances we that cannot in fact control or influence into a change in any possible way. The simplest example, the circumstances that we are born into - this though is not to say that as we get older there is always good reason why, eventually, we cannot change the circumstances and thus the experience and beliefs. Too again take a word out of context, to remove the existentialist understandings/ theories thereof; my personal usage of ‘circumstantial facility’. A simple example of this, of ‘circumstantial facticity’ as I use it - the circumstances of life that we are born into, or find ourselves first growing up. As we get older, as we grow into young adult, it is here within factual circumstances where we bring our individual experiences and beliefs thereof - this instead of saying that experiences ‘come’ to us. It is from circumstances that we ‘bring on’ our subjective/individual internal responses/experiences that influence us and our belief systems.

Concerning your words of interpretation -that of my ‘identity crisis’ -I will, (because I want to!)- respond to you when I am able to again…

Kindest regards

Michelle

 
View Invisible's Profile Search for other posts by Invisible Back to Top
 
Epona
Posted: 2010 July 15 at 10:57am | IP Logged Quote Epona
Avatar
Regular Member
Regular Member


Group: Regular Member
Joined: 2010 April 19
Posts: 36
Hi, Good to hear from you...Loving the metaphor of dance and music, got lost in the description of the expression, gesture, tripping feet and the musical accompaniment
In so saying, there is always the "risk" of tripping over the feet when connecting, perhaps the clumsy interpretation or the difficulty of converting anothers response, beliefs and thoughts to something one relates to...but in this process (of the dance) theres a movement a little closer to ones own and anothers truth.
I am very open to what you are saying about experience and circumstance...I wonder many things but do enjoy the input of someone elses perspective...something to consider, a different angle to think about.
I hear what you are saying about the choice of words and perhaps creatively warping and personalising a term to something more fitting for yourself...but still, I just think that there is something in the parallel...maybe think about the term (personalised as you have it); set yourselves as the couple centre stage and now take away all the external labels, symbols, signifiers that determine, define and divide. Once that is all stripped away, what is left? A mutual connection? mutual interests? mutual values?..etc...if so, does it still seem so rare?
With Love

Edited by Epona on 2010 July 15 at 4:18pm


__________________
I have woven a parachute out of everything broken.~"William Stafford"
 
View Epona's Profile Search for other posts by Epona Back to Top
 
Invisible
Posted: 2010 July 22 at 2:49am | IP Logged Quote Invisible
Avatar
Senior Member
Senior Member


Group: Senior Member
Joined: 2008 January 05
Posts: 90

Hi Lisa,

Hope you are well?

Foremost I must apologise for the terribly long post! - either I cannot speak or I speak too much!

My ‘Identity crisis of sort’…substantially stilled since my initial post. Your interpretation did not forsake my intended meaning…my ( then mistaken) labelling of a "extraordinarily deep connection between two human beings" as being a belief/statement imbued with sentimentality . The identity disturbance so strongly felt at the time was of induced nausea from the sensation of swaying sentimentality. The sickening swaying of sentimentality; a motion of an ’ill’ emotion resulting from visual confusion of reality; the confusion of viewing reality - or the refection I perceive when glancing into the mirror of identity. After your first post in response to my crisis of sort - your words: “trying to balance the imbalance” and the silent screaming of my insecurity “are these words really for me…am I an alien in a foreign land here?” gave me the shove to consider it without, or at the least, consider it with less fear - fear that it may be true, and that I would have to come to terms with owning sentimentality as part of the narration of who I am. I consciously stood ‘balancing’ the motion of emotion of disturbing sense of swaying sentimentality - I stood still -stood on ‘unmoving ground’ of reason- this despite the continuing, sense of being swayed by the ‘imbalance’ of emotional spinning; an emotional vertigo; the spinning although the swaying motion has been ‘disembarked’. I stood fast. I stood until the dizziness of confusion passed and I could again consider and find a truth of understanding, a familiarity of the ‘balanced’ knowing of my identity (as much a we can ’know’ about self!). Through your giving of your words of interpretation, I truly believe I would not have shifted so quickly from the swaying of nauseating sentimentality onto the land of conscious reflection. After the sense of vertigo passed the stilled dizziness allowed clear thought. I could again truthfully make my claim - one that is of great value to me. I am not sentimental. This is not to disavow that I do become incredibly emotional in that which I find deeply meaningful. This being something that I never want to lose as long as I am breathing in the vocation of living. In reflecting upon my nauseating experience of the idea of sentimentality’ that I believed I had to now, in honesty, own as a ’trait’ making up part of my identity. I started by attempting to ‘define’ my understanding of the word ‘sentimentality’. And if it be that this description is in fact a part of who I am, why the insistent denial of owning it. In this process of reflection I considered, what, if I claim to experience emotional meaningfulness, is the difference between the two. How do I understand, and thus separate ‘sentimentality’ from ‘experiencing the emotional meaningful‘ to such a great extent?

Attempting to answer my own questions, mostly why the idea of sentimentality feels so deeply inauthentic to who I am, I considered my overriding attitude…my usual, rather fierce attitude of… “Oh f*#% you Life, the absurdity that defines you! Bring it the F#*% on! I will take on whatever it be that you violently throw at me...and, getting up, I will thank you for giving experience to that which gives to the beauty of who we are…that gives to the beauty of our evolving ‘I’s’”. With this came, what I see to be the distinct separation between being sentimental and being emotionally moved by the meaningful. (I am not speaking, or simply seeking the antonym of the word sentimentality). Without a dictionary to answer my questioning I used my Muse named Life…Life’s offering of experiences allows for ‘ breathing creative’ rumination.

And so (finally! - mostly for your sake)… My understanding of sentimentality, or more accurately the connotations thereof. This, my personal understanding, revealing the reason why ‘it is not me’…and in turn relieving the nausea!

Sentimentality denies - denies the entirety of reality’s undisputable truth - the entirety of that which is life. Sentimentality is partial - it repudiates truths of life. Sentimentality has a shadow that blinds…blinds, disallows the ’seeing’ the inclusion of the ‘bad’ that makes up a necessary and inevitable part of life. The shadow cast hides the whole truth - that there exists ‘good and bad’. How does this then separate from the connotations, my own, of being emotionally moved by the meaningful? - this being of a greater difficulty to explain. If I may…as silly as I feeling daring to! - I am giving to you words that, to me, feel to be an example of the emotionally meaningful rather than the sentimental - words that to me have been spelled with the entirety of reality. The words are not my own - they were given to me (okay I am awfully embarrassed right now but I cannot express what I mean to explain better than the next words can!)... “When I left home this morning and leaning forward, carefully placing a kiss upon your right cheek, I smiled to myself because, as much as I see you as an earthbound angel, I love you because you are human, a person, an individual, a perpetually and continually emerging Self with both abundant beauty and human frailty. This is that which serves to make me love you more, to Live Loving you, to risk revealing myself and to revel in another self’s revelations- it is not that you are not like other people that you have been entrusted with my heart, but because your unique constellation of humanness, in its ‘good and bad’ parts, with all the glory and glorious mistakes and uncertainties, makes you The Person I want to stand by and watch grow and change through her unique life, and share my own with you”

Shutting-up now!

Much love

Michelle

 
View Invisible's Profile Search for other posts by Invisible Back to Top
 
Epona
Posted: 2010 July 22 at 1:39pm | IP Logged Quote Epona
Avatar
Regular Member
Regular Member


Group: Regular Member
Joined: 2010 April 19
Posts: 36
Hi Michelle
Wow, you have such a descriptive manner! I enjoy your posts, please don’t apologise for the length, they are challenging and interesting!
I am honoured that my perhaps, clumsy interpretation acted as a possible catalyst
You have got me thinking on sentimentality...Is it maybe in the manner we perceive it or do I misunderstand its meaning?
On the one hand I see sentimentality as heightened emotion without the substance or as Oscar Wilde once said "A sentimentalist is simply one who desires to have the luxury of an emotion without paying for it."
Does this then challenge our need for objectivity or the feeling we need to "pay the price" in order to own an emotion.
I am admittedly quite conscious of my own sentimentality ...but, I see it as a "flight of the imagination"...I love poetry, music and story and while I think that it is important that the writer is coming from an authentic place, I don't think that it is essential that the reader needs to, in order to enjoy it.
Imagination may cross this gap from where the writer paid the price for beautiful works to the eyes, ears and senses of the reader.
On the other hand I do think that there is a shadow side to sentimentality...in the pathos,...an extremely descriptive writer, one of my favourite melancholy poets, Plath writes with such description that the pathos almost jumps off the page and surrounds me, feeling that I own it...when clearly I do not, ~ belonging to her. See "The Moon and the Yew Tree" for some beautiful sentimental pathos...
I think what I am trying to say is that as I perceive 'sentimentality' it has a place...it is not as "authentic" but still, helpful to us as human beings to "connect" and find a meeting place, an oasis in our differences / different-ness.

I too fight these things, it makes me think of Peter Pan struggling with his errant shadow...the Wendy in us, the nurturing one, patiently and carefully sews it back on, connecting our shadow parts so to speak and easing the tension.

Anyway, I better stop now too, lol, and hopefully that makes sense

Btw...those words are beautiful...“When I left home this morning and leaning forward, carefully placing a kiss upon your right cheek, I smiled to myself because, as much as I see you as an earthbound angel, I love you because you are human, a person, an individual, a perpetually and continually emerging Self with both abundant beauty and human frailty. This is that which serves to make me love you more, to Live Loving you, to risk revealing myself and to revel in another self’s revelations- it is not that you are not like other people that you have been entrusted with my heart, but because your unique constellation of humanness, in its ‘good and bad’ parts, with all the glory and glorious mistakes and uncertainties, makes you The Person I want to stand by and watch grow and change through her unique life, and share my own with you”

You're a lucky girl

With Love

__________________
I have woven a parachute out of everything broken.~"William Stafford"
 
View Epona's Profile Search for other posts by Epona Back to Top
 
<< Prev Topic General Chat Next Topic >>

If you wish to post a reply to this topic you must first login
If you are not already registered you must first register

  Post ReplyPost New Topic
Printable version Printable version

Forum Jump
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum







Copyright © 2001-2004 Psychotherapy.co.za. All rights reserved.

This site is best viewed at 1024x768 screen resolution.
Back to Top